Why is the Sega Genesis arrangement not possible on a fight stick?

TripleTopper321 · Oct 13, 2023

Actually I know part of the answer is that Sega didn't think people would play actual Sega Genesis games with real digital fight sticks, even though they were playing with fight sticks back in the Sega Genesis days for everything, not just Fighters.

For the Sega Genesis 3 button games to work you need a b and c right in a row.

For six button Genesis games to work, you need two rows or three buttons like on a typical fight stick.

Modern pads since the PlayStation 2 have not been kind to Sega and Capcom games.

Is it the whole purpose of Xbox having an OS based accessory app that works on every single game in the system so that developers don't have to think of every reasonable possible combination you can think of, therefore you made an easy to remap system on the accessories app so that's whoever wants to remap the buttons can easily in any way they want.

The problem is is that a trigger cannot be remapped to a non-trigger or vice versa.

Now I understand the reason why you do that as a default mode because certain games require certain analog controls, and games would not work right if digital controls were mapped to analog buttons or vice versa.

But the problem is that fight sticks are not freely remappable if you do that.

In an 8 button arrangements the two triggers are typically the C and D buttons If the bottom row is ABCD and the top row is WXYZ

If the triggers cannot be freely swapped with the non-triggers then there's no way you could get a typical Sega Genesis arrangement of ABC XYZ if C and D are always unremappable to nothing except each other.

The funny thing is, on an Adaptive Controller, I plugged digital controls into left trigger and right trigger and they act exactly like a fight stick button.

Maybe there should be a check mark in the Xbox accessory app which says "Digitize analog triggers?". If checked on the day basically act as a digital button where when it reaches a certain threshold it automatically gets pressed if you press the physical analog button and convert it to digital or if you use the true digital button it'll just be on and off like it's real true digital.

As a bonus you get two things. You could make standard analog triggers work in digital games and even have programmable thresholds of when the analog trigger reaches beyond a certain point it's considered a trigger pull for a digital controller.

The second bonus is that if the game developer thinks that having digital access to analog controls is considered cheating in their book then you could use that as an enforcement method to either deny achievements or even lock out players who are using digital button replacements for analog as a cheat so they have to uncheck it and reconfirm with an analog trigger.

This lockout would be considered opt-in. If the game developer cares enough that this game must be played with analog triggers for it to work and demonstrates how a digital trigger would be considered a cheat, they have to show it in gameplay.

So there'll be three levels. Allow which allows digital triggers, Flag which warrants the players that their triggers are digital and asks if they want to change the controls, and Deny if the developer could prove that's a cheat.

Allowed would be the default flag would be upon request of the developers with no further questions asked and Deny would have to require a review to show how digital triggers would be a cheat.

If the whole point of Microsoft accessories app is to make sure that all bases are covered control wise, then you're doing a failed job if the analog buttons were allowed to be digitized yet the Xbox operating system doesn't let you use it like that.

:)

TripleTopper321

Actually I was referring to the Sega Genesis Collection on Xbox One.

Luckily if you own an Adaptive controller, if you plug in a digital controller into an analog port the game will either read it as 100% pressed or 0% pressed. Nothing in between. So that helps. Both on real Genesis Hardware and the Sega Genesis collection on Xbox One

Ask for the suggestion of the developer allowance, it would be "allow" by default if the developer either sees no reason or doesn't care to fight for it, "flag" if the developer sees it as either the preferred way to play is with with analog triggers for artistic purposes, but it's not strictly enforcing that as a hard requirement then it would just remind you that the developer prefers analog controls and will ask you if you want to change the controls.

In order to get a "deny" label for that particular game, developer has to show that using digital controls ruins a main purpose of the game or makes competitive gaming too lopsided one way or the other.

In other words. allow is the default, flag could be easily applied to any game upon the developers request, and deny would be used in cases the developers show there's achievement fraud or competitive imbalance.

Cliff A.

Hi TripleTopper321

Thank you for replying on this thread. We do appreciate it a lot.

We do understand your concerns on this and as well as for elaborating all that you have mentioned. For this, what we can do is to try to reach out on the support that is capable of doing and giving you the right suggestions and recommendations as well to achieve what you want to do and get.

If there is any case for this, we do have an Xbox Live Support Team for you to be able as well to be informed on what is the best one there is since we do have limited resources here and we are unable to provide you the specifics. It's best to work with them as they have the necessary tools to further investigate the issue and provide you with a timely resolution with your concern.

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Cliff A.

Hi TripleTopper321

Greetings!

Thank you for posting in Microsoft Community

I do understand the urgency of you wanting to find other ways for this issue of yours in regards with your Sega Genesis arrangement not possible on a fight stick. We are very glad to help you out to find some of the best possible options that we can provide.

Firstly, it is important to note that the Xbox Accessories app is designed to work with all games on the system, allowing users to remap buttons and customize their controller settings. However, as you mentioned, there are limitations to remapping triggers to non-triggers or vice versa, as certain games require specific analog controls.

Regarding your suggestion of a "Digitize analog triggers" option in the Xbox Accessories app, this is an interesting idea that could potentially benefit users who prefer digital controls over analog. However, it is ultimately up to the game developers to decide whether or not they want to allow digital triggers in their games, as it could be considered not good in some cases.

In terms of your specific issue with remapping buttons on your fight stick for Sega Genesis games, it may be helpful to try using a third-party remapping software or tool that is designed specifically for retro gaming controllers. These tools often offer more flexibility and customization options than the Xbox Accessories app.

Additionally, you may want to consider using an adapter that allows you to connect your fight stick directly to your Sega Genesis console, as this would eliminate any compatibility issues with Xbox controllers.

Thank you for reaching out and sharing your issue. I hope all of this information's are helpful. We look forward on your response.

Regards,

Microsoft Community Moderator

TripleTopper321

I was talking about the opposite problem: where a fight stick cannot be arranged in true Sega Genesis / Capcom Fighter fashion, two rows of three, because the two triggers are on the bottom row on the outside and cannot be moved to anywhere else, therefore giving you a roll of four buttons and a row of two buttons.

Dragonps

Sega's AM2 classic fighting games have just come on xbla including Virtua Fighter 2, Sonic the Fighters and Fighting Vipers. As for Sonic CD if your a fan of the older Sonic games (on the Megadrive/Genesis) then I would definitely recommend it

Why is the Sega Genesis arrangement not possible on a fight stick?