Why does the Xbox One X force all content (including streaming video) into ALLM if VRR is...

Discus and support Why does the Xbox One X force all content (including streaming video) into ALLM if VRR is... in XBoX on Consoles to solve the problem; Over the course of the past month, I've been playing around with the Variable Refresh Rate (VRR) and Auto Low Latency Mode (ALLM) options on my Xbox... Discussion in 'XBoX on Consoles' started by RobertSteeleXY, Jul 4, 2019.

  1. Why does the Xbox One X force all content (including streaming video) into ALLM if VRR is...


    Over the course of the past month, I've been playing around with the Variable Refresh Rate (VRR) and Auto Low Latency Mode (ALLM) options on my Xbox One X (X1X) as displayed on my LG C9 OLED. I've discovered a bug with how the two features interact (as I
    will outline below) and through additional research, I believe the bug is on the X1X side.

    Note: On the C9, other than a popup notification that appears when ALLM engages, there is no visible indicator in any menu that the TV is in ALLM. The easiest way to tell if the C9 is in ALLM is to set the picture to Cinema mode and then select Picture
    Options. If Noise Reduction and Smooth Gradiation are "grayed out" (i.e. unselectable), the TV is in ALLM. Other manufacturers may have indicators and/or different ways of confirming the mode is engaged.


    When I first setup the TV and connected my X1X, I immediately turned on the ALLM functionality on the TV and selected the checkboxes for "Allow auto low-latency mode" and "Allow variable refresh rate" on the X1X. I quickly noticed that in addition to the desired
    effect of engaging ALLM while gaming, the TV seemed to stay in ALLM mode no matter what I was doing. On the dashboard, using the X1X Netflix App, using the X1X YouTube App, watching cable through my X1X...it was always engaging the low latency mode. The only
    time I noticed ALLM disengaging was when watching a BluRay or UHD BluRay through the X1X disc player (this is still the only circumstance where I can find the TV disengaging the ALLM when VRR is active).

    I posted this concern on the rtings.com discussion boards and Adam Babcock responded with: "Do you have the variable refresh rate feature enabled on the Xbox? It appears that this forces the TV into game mode at all times, even if you aren’t in a game." https://www.rtings.com/tv/discussion...-actually-work

    Adam is great, but because I'm a "trust, but verify" type of guy, I went in and unchecked "Allow variable refresh rate" on my X1X and redid my checks. Sure enough, as he suggested, the X1X immediately started behaving differently. The ALLM would
    only engage when I booted up a game from the dashboard. In all of the other X1X streaming video apps, and while hanging out on the dashboard, ALLM would not kick-in. In other words, once I turned off VRR, the ALLM behaved like I though It should.

    But what if I was wrong? What if, despite being counter-intuitive, VRR was supposed to engage ALLM at all times except for disc-based video content on the X1X? Nope, according to HDMI.org, my understanding of ALLM and how it is supposed to work with
    VRR is correct : "Your gaming box will take care of these choices for you. If you are
    streaming videoor playing a BluRay, it would only enable QMS; if you fire up a game, it would enable ALLM, VRR, and QFT, depending on what your system supports." (emphasis added)

    https://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_1/index.aspx


    Now, knowing that the way VRR and ALLM were interacting was not according to specification in my setup, it was clearly a bug and not a feature. The question remaining was, is it a problem with the X1X or my LG C9 OLED? I'm still not 100% certain, but I'm growing
    increasingly convinced that the problem is with the X1X. I've found numerous comments on Reddit where people with different TV sizes and/or manufacturers report encountering this same problem. See a few examples below:


    The most practical solution I've found is to turn off VRR on the X1X but keep ALLM active. This way, ALLM behaves properly and I can just turn on VRR when playing the limited games on the system that support it.

    Is Microsoft aware of this issue?

    :)
     
    RobertSteeleXY, Jul 4, 2019
    #1
  2. Duster589 Win User

    Why does the Xbox One X force all content (including streaming video) into ALLM if VRR is also selected?

    The issue isn't if console games have screen tearing or not. That is what the VRR is designed to do. It also helps smooth out some screen jittering due to inconsistent frame rates. You are completely entitled to your opinion if it is needed or not, that
    was not the purpose of my response.

    The reason you don't see screen tearing issues with console games is because the frame rates are generally locked to either 30 or 60 fps. If the system can run the game at a near constant 30 or 60 fps you won't get screen tearing. The only need for VRR
    is for the games that developers are turning off the frame limiters on.

    However screen tearing on consoles happen. It is infrequent but it does happen. It is usually very quick and most of the time people will not notice it happens.

    Here is a video of an example of screen tearing in Borderlands on the XBOX ONE:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL39RtQiu1U
  3. ThanatosXRS Win User

    Why does the Xbox One X force all content (including streaming video) into ALLM if VRR is also selected?

    Freesync is stupid, I never use it. Why would u want to lower your monitor refresh rate? Xbox already has vsync on

    Playing games on a tv always have high input lag

    The C7P has a 120 Hz panel and is able to interpolate lower frame rate content to 120 fps, which significantly improves motion.

    Lmao your tv isnt even real 120hz its 60 interpolate

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_interpolation

    TV Refresh Rates are fake that why everyone uses monitiors

    I use a MS Optix MAG241C monitor, real refresh and reponse rate and only $200 https://us.msi.com/Monitor/Optix-MAG241C

    https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/c7-oledYour tv has a fake refresh rate it double draws the frames, your tv cant fake frames with Auto Low Latency Mode (ALLM) hence turns off interpolation, the xbox isnt
    doing anything your tv is
  4. RobertSteeleXY Win User

    Why does the Xbox One X force all content (including streaming video) into ALLM if VRR is also selected?

    Thanks, Duster. Appreciate the response. I'm worried that we will never get a fix if we can't pinpoint where the issue is (i.e. on the console side or the TV manufacturer side).
  5. Duster589 Win User

    Why does the Xbox One X force all content (including streaming video) into ALLM if VRR is also selected?

    This is a known problem with Samsung TVs as well, unless they have released an update that fixes this behavior. Problem is it could also be the way the Xbox handles the signal. Unfortunately until either the TV manufactures or Microsoft fix the problem
    in an update you have found the only "fix" I have found. It's unknown right now, as far as I know, if it is the TV side or the console side that has the issue. I suspect the reason ALLM turns off when Disc based video is played is because the TV goes into
    24hz mode.

    So long and short of it, you have pretty much answered your own question until LG/Sony/Samsung release a fix or Microsoft releases a fix.
  6. GKM001 Win User

    Why does the Xbox One X force all content (including streaming video) into ALLM if VRR is also selected?

    “Freesync is stupid, I never use it. Why would u want to lower your monitor refresh rate? Xbox already has vsync on

    Playing games on a tv always have high input lag

    The C7P has a 120 Hz panel and is able to interpolate lower frame rate content to 120 fps, which significantly improves motion.

    Lmao your tv isnt even real 120hz its 60 interpolate

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_interpolation

    TV Refresh Rates are fake that why everyone uses monitiors

    I use a MS Optix MAG241C monitor, real refresh and reponse rate and only $200 https://us.msi.com/Monitor/Optix-MAG241C

    https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/c7-oledYour tv has a fake refresh rate it double draws the frames, your tv cant fake frames with Auto Low Latency Mode (ALLM) hence turns off interpolation, the xbox
    isnt doing anything your tv is”


    - Trashing a 55 inch 10 bit 4k HDR OLED while boasting about an 8 bit 24 inch 1080p LCD that can’t even do HDR?!? Lmao, p-lease! Envy, much?

    If you’re gonna be THAT guy, mocking people’s posts and hardware without provocation, bragging about your hardware and acting like you know it all then at least get your facts straight first.

    1. Why are you going on about true 120hz? And why are you linking Rtings and blathering on about the 2017 LG C7 model when the OP is about the 2019 C9 model? . . . Oops! xD Heads up, the C9 is true 120hz, not fake interpolated. It supports 120hz upto 1440p
    with HDMI 2.0 sources and 4k 120 with HDMI 2.1 sources.

    https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/c9-oled#comparison_2446

    2. “Freesync is stupid. Why would you want to lower your refresh rate?”

    - Ironic that you would label something “stupid” when its clear you don’t even know what it’s supposed to do, let alone how it works, lol. If you think console games don’t ever use adaptive Vsync which can result in tearing then I suggest you go read some
    Digital Foundry articles. Not every game uses hard Vsync and those that do use hard Vsync can suffer from hard fps drops to a fraction of the target refresh if that target cannot be met. That’s the tradeoff for no tearing. VRR conpatible games are thus gradually
    being released with VRR performance modes where framerate is not locked at 30 but performance is not consistent enough for a full 60 either.

    https://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/variable_refresh.htm

    3. “Playing games on a TV always have a high input lag”.

    - Nope, not anymore. This year’s LG OLEDs have the lowest input lag in a gaming TV ever. Circa 13ms in 60hz modes and *under 7ms* in 120hz mode. Your monitor will be around 5ms input lag at best, probably higher.

    Hardly the massive difference you make it out to be and besides, the Mag241C can’t even hope to compete against the C9 for colour reproduction, contrast, black levels, luminosity, motion handling and panel uniformity.

    I suggest you do your homework beforehand next time. :D
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Why does the Xbox One X force all content (including streaming video) into ALLM if VRR is...

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