While in stark contrast to past policy and vision, even the most change-adverse individuals ...

Discus and support While in stark contrast to past policy and vision, even the most change-adverse individuals ... in XBoX on Consoles to solve the problem; While in stark contrast to past policy and vision, even the most change-adverse individuals understand the future of user and community involvement,... Discussion in 'XBoX on Consoles' started by masterwit, Oct 8, 2014.

  1. masterwit
    masterwit Guest

    While in stark contrast to past policy and vision, even the most change-adverse individuals ...


    While in stark contrast to past policy and vision, even the most change-adverse individuals understand the future of user and community involvement, specifically in regards to the ability to access, manage, and view data that we generate.



    To be clear, some context first...



    Excited, often frenzied, sometimes relaxed. There is a plethora of ways to describe a user after the purchase of an item in which they plan to spend time - whether that item be a lawnmower, television, computer, or in this case a new game console. First
    we have the unraveling of cords and perhaps a semi-complete location has been arranged in which to set the console. The power-strip clicks on to reveal it's signature orangered hue, the device powers on, then right back off as we forgot a cord. Everything
    is set, some have prepared immensely for a marketed "experience", some come for the casual albeit social atmosphere the system provides. Whatever the reason, it's on, the controller works, and that game is spinning up.



    Legalese Snippets, terms of use, and the "EULA"



    First, however, the legalese in the epic form of the EULA, of which is a necessary component for providing content control, merchandising, and much more. A necessary evil at times, sometimes just the equivalent of "No diving in the
    shallow end of the pool"
    . The reason or the existence of the EULA is not something I seek to debate but rather an often overlooked component: Microsoft (or whatever owning party) has ultimate control by means of access.

    The Microsoft Windows operating system takes a rather good approach (in my humble opinion) to the ownership of content produced by the end-user:

    Who owns my Content that I put on the Services? You do. Some Services enable you to communicate with others and share or store various types of files, such as photos, documents, music and video. The contents of your communications
    and your files are your “Content” and, except for material that we license to you that may be incorporated into your own Content (such as clip art), we don't claim ownership of the Content you provide on the Services. Your Content remains your Content, and
    you're responsible for it. source

    Okay, that isn't too bad... navigating to the
    Xbox Live Terms of Use
    ...

    [...] This Agreement applies to Xbox games, content, applications and services, including Xbox Live, SmartGlass, Games for Windows-Live, Xbox Video, Xbox Music, and Windows Phone Store/Marketplace (including any store provided under the brand of a
    Windows Phone partner that links to this agreement) including services or software that allow you to stream, download, view or use certain digital content such as music, video, games, applications and other content that Microsoft makes available from
    time to time (the “Services”). The Services may be accessed from the Xbox One console, the Xbox 360 console, a personal computer, mobile device, portable media player, or other devices, each as authorized by Microsoft
    (each an “Authorized Device”),
    or online. When using the Services, you must abide by these terms (“this Agreement”).

    Right off the bat we can see we must use an authorized Service to access content. But who owns the content?

    We do not claim ownership of the content you provide on the Services. Your content remains your content. We do not control, verify, or endorse the content that you and others make available on the Services.

    This is ultimately best from a legal standpoint and as a user we like to believe our game statistics, text postings, and perhaps even forum posts such as this are Content that can be viewed under a Service.

    1.9 Are there things I can’t do on the Services? [partial list shown below]



    • Enable unauthorized third party applications to access the Services; [...]
    • Use or attempt to use any unauthorized means to modify, reroute, or gain access to the Services;[...]
    • Use any automated process or service (such as a bot, a spider, periodic caching of information stored by Microsoft, or metasearching) to access or use the Services, or to copy or scrape data from the Services;[...]
    • Obtain (or try to obtain) any data from the Services or related hardware,
      except the data that we intend to make available to you;



    One standard to rule them all, one standard to bring all traffic [into the darkness and bind it...] reference



    Now I can reason with most of this... to allow unauthorized hardware, manipulation of Xbox Live (matchmaking) network data, or the accessing of data designed to be personal, private, or "private by non-index" (which is arguably not private at all)
    ...well this would introduce undesirable performance and experiences for the greater community and introduce ultimately unnecessary legal loopholes [from hell].

    We may have legal responsibility, thus the "ownership", of the content we contribute, but content such as statistics, raw metrics, etc. may only be accessed through the desired product medium that Microsoft has provided.

    Now there are also interesting caveats such as this:

    2.6. Who is responsible for the data and content? You are responsible for backing up the data and content that you store on the Services.

    What means besides pen and paper am I provided to download primary and 3rd party stats for my own backup. Perhaps a flat-file, spreadsheet, or XML? If these services exist they are not made readily available without investment and involvement in
    developer keys. It may be in poor taste to mention a competitor in terms of examples, but the over-reaching almost too big Google has this snippet of wisdom from their site that facilitates downloading account data (that they... or you would) select:

    [...] People usually don't look to see if they can get their data out of a product until they decide that they want to leave. For this reason, we always encourage you to ask these three questions before starting to use a product that will store your
    data [...]
    link


    While this would be a valuable feature especially considering the raw data (such as the Waypoint "sphere") I ultimately would love to analyze for personal non-profit non-public-facing-website use.

    Ultimately my point is that without the means to access our data in a mutable form outside of the display-only Services such as SmartGlass, I cannot properly archive or realize my own Xbox Live experience.

    I need an API, and the ever evolving user experience has shown
    [1](etc) a need for strong customization centered around common-core set of services




    There are many users who will never have a desire to look at a spreadsheet, and likewise there are an equal number who absolutely do... Back in the days of Halo: Reach, when Bungie moved towards providing "tools
    for a growing community" rather than prefabricated Ikea-like experiences (such as SmartGlass, Halo: Waypoint app, and more). These products are a great asset to the Xbox Live user experience but this same effort would be done
    for free by community members if we were provided with a comprehensive extensible API (with polling limitations, large portions not requiring SSL / OAuth, and the siloing of usage
    / availability / authentication based on the nature and/or area of the data.

    We have graduated from the traffic heavy protocols such as
    SOAP
    from a few years back and as an industry have learned a
    RESTful
    approach may be best. Halo Waypoint is a failure, but the remedy is not a shining example of a Waypoint done right but rather the elevation of community sites (such as HaloTracker, HaloCharts, etc.) for specific, but not all, presentation
    of data, results, and statistics all from an experience that your services still provide in the manner in which you desire. This is not a loss of marketing, paid services (don't milk the 5% of the user-base), loss of control over content
    presentation, or even allowance of unauthorized access to the closed-area services portion. This is past game data, statistics describing the Xbox Live experience that ultimately is the foundation of your market.

    I have my BS in both CS and Mathematics and have industry experience dealing with production-scale data on database tables Oracle has trouble keeping afloat. No I am not some prodigy or magical consultant; I am simply a user who is tortured by the relatively
    simple fact I cannot gain access to my data as a webservice, an API, or ideally in the REST framework. A site such as HaloTracker would argue that Halo Waypoint was the biggest middle finger the industry might have provided... this might have some grain of
    truth when we consider the poor execution of data, in-game data, data exports and imports to your own internal services, and more that Halo 4 delivered and the rapid drop-off of the community thereafter.

    Perhaps nothing will come of this post outside of a proper medium for which I vent, but I encourage whomever may read this to consider company success not something such as...

    [a] "several thousand app sales on the Google Play marketplace"

    ...but rather

    "two million hits daily hits to a non-Microsoft community website"

    ...instead. Relying on a strong gaming network - a backbone for the online experience which we call Xbox Live, facilitates the ability for us to add value to your product-base. You lose a minuscule portion of your income selling apps (SmartGlass, etc)
    but gain by a large factor a stronger (subscription) community.

    This service as-a-backbone, an API for the passionate, and support of various web communities is the stuff which...

    1. markets such as MLG are born
    2. devoted (spending) fans are found, and
    3. the continued community innovation that ultimately is the driving force behind your
      subscription-based service is grown
    In conclusion...

    I need an API. Also your developers need a strong user-statistics framework built into the "Developer Toolkit". This would give you metrics to your own marketing efforts, facilitate the other half of our online gaming experience, and encourage
    player-communities
    that are far superior to the mandated attempts such as Halo Waypoint. Give us the user-experience to connect it all along with the freedom to elevate your products to their fullest potential. This is not something Microsoft would
    have done in the 1990's, but this is also 2014; you, the reader, may find the idea discussed here naturally coincides with the current corporate vision for vertical market
    solutions services (such as the latest ERP business tools you offer). If anyone has read this far, thank-you for taking that time and I'd be happy to follow-up for clarification or greater detail...

    cheers!


    :)
     
    masterwit, Oct 8, 2014
    #1
  2. Matthew K(2)
    Matthew K(2) Guest
    The best Rewards of past, present, and future

    Does the best rewards of the past, present and future include deluxe editions - i.e. the Final Fantasy deluxe version or just the standalone game version count?
     
    Matthew K(2), Oct 8, 2014
    #2
  3. XBLRewards8
    XBLRewards8 Guest
    The best Rewards of past, present, and future

    Hello Sir Beanalot,

    The deluxe edition of that game is eligible for that offer. I can confirm that your purchase was not properly allocated toward that offer, and will adjust your account accordingly. Keep in mind that the A Rewards Story offer required the completion of all
    three chapters in order to receive Credits.
     
    XBLRewards8, Oct 8, 2014
    #3
  4. BongKaos
    BongKaos Guest

    While in stark contrast to past policy and vision, even the most change-adverse individuals ...

    ? Can I get the readers digest version ?

    Thanks for the opinion--- become a developer or, what are you on about......
     
    BongKaos, Oct 11, 2014
    #4
  5. BongKaos Win User

    While in stark contrast to past policy and vision, even the most change-adverse individuals understand the future of user and community involvement and the need for solutions surrounding game statistics and data...

    ? Can I get the readers digest version ?

    Thanks for the opinion--- become a developer or, what are you on about......
  6. Pyramid Head15 Win User

    Hey MS, I thought you WANTED us to embrace all digital, but you don't act like it...

    Hey, if MS did change their policies based simply on a small percentage of people that didn't matter, then you know what that tells me?

    That MS didn't have the balls to go through with their vision and are just spineless. A real visionary wouldn't back down from their supposed innovation and power through the adversity. But go ahead and let those salt levels rise: you never had to buy the
    Xbox One and if you're upset about the changes the only one you have to blame is yourself for buying it. Or MS for changing it.
  7. Azrael008uk Win User

    is grfs still alive online

    You might have just picked a bad time to go on.



    With most of the American Eastern Seaboard adversely affected by Frankenstorm Sandy while this won't shut the game down internationallhy it will certainly have an adverse affect on available servers and online numbers.



    Az
  8. Spud 72 Win User

    Vietnam Rush. Whats your Fav?

    I like Hamburger Hill just because it's so damn cool and both halves of the map are such a stark contrast from one another. As for setups I'm all over the place. Phu Bia's a fun one also.
  9. repossed_856 Win User

    contact microsoft with to receive a replacement console

    The form to request a replacement on the website is broken. I called Amazon and they are shipping me a replacement which will be here Tuesday. Quite a stark contrast to the 3 hour phone call to MS Support and 2 hours of chat support today.
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