Racing Contours for Triggers

Attention: Xbox Automotive Department.

Hi Xbox pit crew,

My name is Aidan. I need to discuss my experiences with the past few generations of controllers regarding their use for the purpose of driving and/or racing. I very much enjoy racing on original Xbox and X360, but the quality of that experience changed
when you introduced the Xbox 1 console. The console and the games are fantastic. Many current racing games are available across platforms such as the Dirt and WRC franchises, but I'm addressing Microsoft because I've been with them since I was eighteen and
I am now thirty-three, and also because your X360 controller is available for almost all games on Steam, including Dirt and WRC.

I was spurred to write to you after recently purchasing WRC 6 and WRC 7 for Xbox 1. I knew that there were weekly challenges happening in WRC 7, so I entered the event in Argentina. Using a controller that I didn't find to be very comfortable, I chose
Thierry Neuville and Nicolas Gilsoul and took them for a spin. And this is the nature of my message- https://www.faceboo k.com/WorldRally/videos/242536419748948/U zpfSTY4MjYyNzI5OTcyOjEwMTU2ODgxMjk5MzM0OTcz/ , I'm calling
the crowd for help. This strangely popped into my newsfeed days after I started the WRC 7 races. Convenient, no?

I'm not a pro, I realise that. But without playing any solo or career mode, I went straight into an online race with an unfamiliar advanced settings screen and took 12th of 373 people. The guys in the top ten are in a league of their own, and I'm not one
of them, I know, but I've been consistently placing in the top twenty-three over five races, averaging a placement of eighteenth. To be honest, the guys in the top five make me feel insignificant. Leaderboard hackers? Let's assume 'no' until proof is attained.
*I just placed in this week's track in Poland. There are 3 1/2 days left, but I'm in 11th with an average speed of 110 km/h. The leader has an average speed of 125 km/h which is on par with the WRC's ideal average speed. I'm not the best mechanic and I'm racing
on crooked triggers, but I'm no longer a novice. (final place- 18th)

That's how competition works, though, doesn't it? All the guys who have gone pro compete against each other and still, only one gets first, one gets second, third, and so on. I've already beaten WRC 4 (on Steam) and WRC 5 (on X360) without any steering
complaints. I beat WRC 4 on difficulty 6 of 10, and 5 on difficulty 3 of 4. And when I say beat, I mean I placed first in every race in the career mode. I own all the Colin McRae games for original Xbox, and all the Dirt games for X360. I've beaten the McRae
games on the highest difficulty without having to use the first person view (expert, not master), but this is a franchise where sometimes you just have to beat the spread of six races because trying to first every race is just maddening. On the other hand,
I was able to first every race in Dirt's career on the highest difficulty. Dirt 2 is a different animal and the dynamics are much different. I firsted all races in that game on difficulty 3 of 5. And my file in Dirt 3 was raced entirely on difficulty 5 of
6 and its level select screen is comprised entirely of gold triangles. I think my biggest game-racing achievement is beating Sebastien Loeb's 2013 Pike's Peak time by 8 seconds. I did that in Dirt Rally for X1- with the Duke controller, which did produce under/oversteer
problems, but not as bad as the standard X1 controller did.

https://www.f acebook.com/aidan.tompkins/ videos/vb.574656012/10156343004766013/ ?type=2&video_source=user_video_tab

I don't drive standard transmission, but I am an experienced, competent racer. Another notable racing game that I've completed is F-Zero GX. I took first in all its Master Cups. I use Roger Blaster. I know you know F-Zero; don't pretend you don't, hahaha.
And the game that gave me my foundation was RalliSport 2 for original Xbox. I can flatten those tracks like they're all in my back yard.

https://www.f acebook.com/aidan.tompkins/ videos/vb.574656012/10153739167021013/ ?type=2&video_source=user_video_tab

I have ten consoles and a laptop PC that needs a better graphics card. It has a four gig card which supports WRC 4 and Dirt Rally on Steam, but nothing above that. I need eight gigs to play WRC 6 and 7. Maybe next year. But for the meantime, back to
Xbox.

The troubleshooting to which I'm pointing involves the new trigger contours. These new trigger models take my nice long drifts and turn them into little speed-reduced mouse squeeks. I can't get sideways with them. And they are the cause of way too many
crashes. With the older models, I can just dump myself around corners. The new controllers cause me to overprepare on the flattest of surfaces. I believe that a higher percentage of the steering is guided by the triggers compared to the analog stick. They're
breaking my ninja flow. For instance, If I'm trying to navigate a tight chicane, I'll experience understeer while turning left, and oversteer while turning right. I'll never get through Spain. That's not a phenomenon that you can create by setting the car's
dynamics in the advanced settings. You can create one imbalance at a time, but not both at once. The tighter the track and the more corners featured in it, the more seconds I lose per kilometer. Trying to do my best is foolhardy.

My father sells cars for Nissan in Sydney Cape Breton. In 1988, we got a Pathfinder. It was Mom's truck pretty much. Dad always drove the demonstrators from work- Maximas, Altimas, other Pathfinders, etc. By about 1995 when I was in grade five, the truck
developed a wheel alignment problem in the front wheels. Mom's an anxious and not very adventurous driver and she didn't notice it. Dad took the truck out one day and noticed the problem immediately. He asked, "How long has it been doing that? The left front
wheel is pulling the vehicle to one side. How did you not notice that?"

You wouldn't take a driver's pedals and slant them under his feet so that both sides aren't flush with each other, so why would you do it to the finger pedals? Imagine taking the d-pad and slanting all its natural arms arbitrarily so that translating your
direction becomes baffling. My brain can't calculus that. I know, you probably don't want to redo what you've done before, but this is critical. You have a rally car on a delicate mountain path and your car is experiencing traction problems? Safety issue?
Yes. Make the rational decision and change the contours back to the only acceptable, essential shape? YES, PLEASE!! Dreamcast used the same contour, albeit the triggers were a bit narrow. Beating Re-Volt with the Dreamcast controllers was a knuckle-crunching
ordeal, but I did it.

Recently, I completed Mad Max on Xbox 1. All of it. The ending was a gut-churner, but I loved it. I got achievements that 6%, 4%, 2%, and 1% of gamers got. I drove the whole time with the new X1 Duke model controller. The Duke controller's triggers are
more comfortable than the standard X1's, but they are also flawed. For instance, when I beat Sebastien Loeb's Pike's Peak time in Dirt Rally, I did it a year ago with a standard controller and I beat his time by 3.5 seconds. During the last three minutes of
my run, my ring and pinky fingers on my left hand fell asleep because gripping the triggers was so uncomfortable. When I beat his time again this year, this time by eight seconds, I did it with the Duke controller because I wanted to find out if the controller
triggers were superior to the standard ones. They totally were. I used about 1/4 the number of retries I used the previous year, and my fingers didn't fall asleep!!! After proving that improvement to myself, my next project was Mad Max. It had been sitting
in my to-play pile for over a year. I put in almost one hundred hours with the Duke controller. It still caused steering issues, but they were manageable because you don't need to have the skills of a rallyist to navigate the game's objectives and win. The
same understeer/oversteer/straightline traction issues I complain of in Dirt Rally and WRC were present in Mad Max, and this is important because that means that my selections in the advanced settings of rally sims aren't the cause of the WRC car's traction
difficulties. The cars in Mad Mad are all pre-packaged cars that can't be modified in the rally sense.

In my last few hours of Mad Max, I purchased the WRC 6 and 7 games from a store down the street. They were marked down because nobody was buying them. I had them eyed for months before I got the Duke on pre-order. Because their objectives are more demanding
than Mad Max's, I found myself grabbing my metal file kit so that I could use it to file unwanted edges and contours off the Duke's triggers. Filing the edges of the Duke's triggers caused improvements in handling for WRC and Mad Max. So, it's like I have
a control group and a test group. Mad Max stays consistent and WRC can have its suspension, gear ratio, differentials, etc set all over the map. When I alter the trigger shape, I learn that the same conditions affect each game. I'm doing good science.

I bought the X1 Ferrari steering wheel shortly after buying the two WRC games. No one can say that I didn't take the time to venture to probably the most precise equipment used for racing. I don't have a good table to clamp it to yet and I need to anchor
the pedals to something, too. I can't build this Gaming Rome in one night. However, if you don't want people to use generic controllers for driving games, don't allocate game functions to the buttons on the controllers. Your other option is to make them properly.
Sorry if I sound defensive. Maybe I'm bracing myself for a response that will make me scowl, something like "Our controllers were never meant for racing and are more tuned to fps games and the like. For the best experience in racing, we suggest using the pricier,
bulkier steering wheel." Sorry, I just want to preempt conflict. I'm going to push myself to learn how to use it in future days, even if the handbrake button goes around the wheel as it turns. Gggrrrrrrrrrr. I own the games and equipment now; it's not as if
I rented them. But as it stands, I want to race the online events that are happening now with the device that's most comfortable, and it will take me a while to adapt to a steering wheel and foot pedals. After five races, I stopped competing, even with the
Duke. I've been white-knuckling my way through courses and it's just not necessary. And it eats up a lot of time. Most attempts lead to the retry button.

While taking off from the starting line, I noticed that the optimal acceleration point isn't located down the centre of the trigger, its y axis, but over to the right of the axis, on the palm-side of the trigger. If the car goes over a set of bumps and
the nose shifts direction, I can't catch the car's weight with the triggers because I can't shift my finger weight from trigger left to trigger right and anticipate the trigger's mirror image. My finger is left to quickly try a few arbitrary trajectories before
the car ends up in the ditch. The faster the car goes, the more pronounced the broken mirror's effect. The triggers are working in tandem with the anti-roll bars and if they are improperly contoured, the car will experience relentless sloshing. Going off jumps
and landing with the gas trigger pressed in is a nightmare that commonly ends in me veering to one side or the other. Usually, that practice isn't a problem. I lose a lot of seconds on long corners- long left four tightens to three. Balance is also affected
when I switch from one surface to the next because my fingers will recalibrate by quickly sliding up or down the triggers, and that practice is now confounded.



The trigger shape doesn't allow me to evenly feel the car's rear end, especially at the acceleration end of the trigger where I get most of my push. Also, the tips have to be flush on either side- no elf ear shapes. They've completely confounded my trailbreaking
techniques. I now lift my gas finger off the trigger while navigating harder corners instead of holding it down to the optimal degree and pushing through the corner with it.

Furthermore, the Duke button contour makes for a very awkward handbreak, and all six of them are slanted. Understeer and direction-change is usually the result of contacting the handbrake button. The best handbrake button is a common circle. It can be
split into four equal quadrants, and it is necessary to press a particular quadrant to shift the car's weight just right for the corner being entered.

I have to touch on the steering wheel again. Your company has developed controllers for a physically handicapped demographic. I am part of that demographic, now to a lesser degree. I have done about two-and-a-half years of physio on a shoulder tissue
injury that affected me for about two decades. It's a long story. Short version is my jaw messed up my right arm and adjacent ribs and it took years to catch it. Another alignment problem that slowed down a vessel. The malady knocked me out of my career for
about four years in my late twenties and during that time, I took the time to play a stack of rally games because I wanted to branch out from RalliSport 2 which I had already owned for about eight years. My shoulder isn't completely healed and my posture isn't
100%. I'd prefer to brace my neck and back against the couch or on a mound of blankets/pillows on my bed while I race because my neck won't fight me as much if I'm not trying to sit up without support. It's more convenient for me to have my arms at my side,
elbows and forearms at rest, while my thumbs and forefingers handle the details. I know it's supposed to be a realistic simulator, but ultimately, I'm on my couch in my living room steering my tv screen and so is everyone else racing against me. It is beneficial
for me to have the lowest dose controller available for racing, and the lowest dose should be available.

After my first two online WRC races, I thought, "There are 11 racers and 21 racers in front of me in races 1 and 2, and behind me and those racers are 361 and 317 other racers. What if I got good enough to place with the racers who are good with steering
wheels and everyone behind me is having difficulty with the standard controllers and not understanding why? Not everyone has a steering wheel and not everyone has been driving rally sport games for fifteen years."

After days of whittling the Duke triggers to resemble the 360's triggers, I entered the Aspres les Corps- Chaillol event in Monte Carlo. The track was wider than the previous course, though it featured many switchbacks, up and down hill. The switchbacks
were arduous, but I was able to wind around most of the other turns more autonomously. The triggers have 'bad camber'! Dude! Where's my Scandanavian Flick?

Sony has recently announced its Playstation 5. They've never had a well-contoured controller for racing. Please get the jump on them before you announce your next generation Xbox console and revisit your former standard blueprints for trigger and button
contours from original Xbox and Xbox 360. I'm pulling my hair out trying to steer these cars. Please. A letter this long must be a form of begging. Backwards compatibility? All that's needed is a simple shape, following one contour, like a drumstick, no specially
crafted grooves for fingers to fit in, like a rubberized wheelbarrow handle. The grooves preclude rudiments, stick spins, and gravity blasts. If the trend of morphing trigger shapes continues from console to console, by the year 3018, Fry and Bender will be
regaling us of a brief epoch when gaming controllers could keep a car on the road!

I'm sure that others who read this will have their own say and chime in with responses such as "I use the standard controller for racing all the time and it always goes smooth. My times are better than yours even. And and and..." I'm saying right now that
I'm not here to debate this; I'm here to explain it and make request that the trigger contours from the first two Xbox generations are used in all future generations for the sake of ergonomics. Thank you.

Statler and Waldorf- "Tough luck, kid! Bahahahahahahah!"

Yeah, I know, right?



But seriously, please turn the flip-flops back into running shoes; you gave my car scoliosis. I'll tell you what my sous-chef tells me when I'm doing something wrong- "You're doing that wrong." And I'll tell you what my chef sternly tells me if he sees
me doing something potentially hazardous- "Don't do that again."



With a proper controller, I can navigate this in my sleep. The controller available for X1 turns this chicane into a death sentence. This is why I stopped racing after five races. Being in the top 25 is fun, but the frustration and time lost out of
my week is over the top. I knew that if I got to Spain and had to fight with this style of road, I was going to throw a fit; Monte Carlo was bad enough.

https:/ /www.facebook.com/javier.blancodosal.7/videos/2338435026377720/UzpfSTY4MjYyNzI5OTcyOjEwMTU2OTU5NTE3OTM5OTcz/?__tn__=kC-R&eid=ARCqEcO5C6X4Vhm9A5vxOUK-7-1okfjLF8oIrUILZq3Kxi5SdR5tM3_OaUYx6D2XhYYMGoetYQBykMx4&hc_ref=ARTRsfxn0Y9JDpis8A0DQCscnE58AXRpcOxiIORz1pKzOjvGEbzFVWMlnpbgaOyezPE&__xts__[0]=68.ARDFUdvmOk6XnryE9b5qP9EGzDTL5QlroqddjQr-k_5AntoyiycLXNlq5soRZm4AqfVeGoSFbai7LfeCgBxqlCUg4worLEBJ48ZOZe9wsAEP4yMXib10ZCVHKLZym44_uMUKA1ruzJY8JVbh3bG1KhA5Vwf5imQ1IidaLJT9I5H6O7PZ_nKAMcS-BBeEf31GMagSujcKkhHHBR0t2jaRPJhzlf-w2FtPssvgj4GwONSMwsqG84ypknWW6lByxD_8FaMKGR
M

And last, I made a video to depict a graph that I can't draw onto the forum page. It's listed as unlisted, so the only people able to see it are those seeing this forum and the following link. The video helps explain how I use my fingers in relation
to the trigger contours when I have the best triggers available.

https:/ /www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTy8xpjDgj k

To the Xbox advocacy team, and the 300+ people behind me in the WRC 7 racing league- who is having traction problems while driving with these controllers? Possibly trouble resembling this-
https:/ /www.facebook.com/GameSpot/videos/699754423735700 /, or this
https:/ /www.facebook.com/GameSpot/videos/2101630110153102 /

My question is- how soon can this be rectified?

https:/ /www.facebook.com/ diplyhumor/videos/822698707871734/ You need this.

:)

 

Microsoft wireless steering wheel - RT and LT not working

Hi,

I'm having an issue with Microsoft wireless steering wheel. Left and right triggers don't work on games other than racing games, for example Rayman Legends. Anubody knows how to resolve it?

Regards

 

squeeze trigger

Racing games have this for sure. Works great for the breaks and the gas. So its there for sure but as mentioned, its in programming.

I know there are a lot of other games that also have this feature that allows you to only squeeze so far on the triggers to perform different actions.

 

Wow, that is dedication to the cause! I could not stop reading, even though it must be one of the longest Xbox Forum posts ever.

Just out of pure curiosity, have you tried any of the 3rd party Xbox One controllers? Do they have a similar contour to the Microsoft Branded ones? The Razer Wolverine gets fairly good reviews, Horipad's controller looks much more like a PS4 style. PowerA
Fusion, and ADP are a couple of other contenders.

Happy Gaming, and maybe I'll see you at the starting line one day...

 

Hi Echo4Ent, thanks for reading. It is quite the long post. I arranged it over the course of about a month. Too bad all the links were removed, but they weren't that important. No, I haven't tried any third party controllers yet. I tried looking for some
at the store the day I bought the racing wheel, but they didn't have any for Xbox. I haven't looked for any since then. That's only been a few weeks. Thanks for the heads up on brands to look for!

 

I forgot to highlight that the S-Controller from original Xbox is the equal to the 360 controller. That was part of one of the links that didn't load. Straight contours beget straight-line traction, and the triggers have to point straight out from the controller
body, not toed in or out like the X1 standard and Duke. And I forgot to highlight that adding width to the controller trigger makes for juicier acceleration, as I found when I played Dirt on Steam and X1 with different controllers- like changing the wheel
base on your car. That width probably has a threshold before it becomes too wide for the finger.

*And wherever you add pressure to the gas trigger, there is a complementary pressure point on the brake trigger.