"microsoft ensures a reputation system that recognizes false reports"

Halo 5 gets released, you and I wish to play the 4 player co-op campaign from start to finish over several weeks. Neither of us have anyone on our friends list that plans on getting the game and playing co-op in our desired time
frame.

This would be rare. Especially if it were just released recently. Don't know about your list, but mine would have more than enough people to do that... multiple times. To humor you though, let's say that did happen.

I'd send out a message to a few friends that I have been gaming with for a while. For 'online friends', we're pretty close. I put effort into cultivating my FL. I can nigh guarantee you there would be enough that would be willing
to jump over from another activity, even if they hadn't planned on it. Say it's because "That's what friends do" or maybe "monkey see, monkey want" in the have fun department... or whatever, but I've done this.

It works... and I believe it works better, because I found them 1 at a time... sent them friend requests (or vice versa) 1 at a time... got to know them... 1 at a time. As friends and gamers. Find people like that with a few quickly
thought up criteria or presets and a quick search.

Blue (and correct me if I'm wrong) - joins random games. Blocks/reports obnoxious people, leaves those games while looking for people that have his same goals, wearing mics, have the same availability in play times and hopefully
you'll have something in common with.

I actually did this with Reach. Joined in random games to do some co op one night. I had to block... actually on 360, it was "Avoid" 1 single person and dropped from 2 games. This didn't take long, maybe half an hour... and you'll
never guess what happened. By that time, I had a message from a friend asking if there was an open slot. He had finished his CoD game and decided to join me despite not wanting to earlier. About 10 minutes later, we had a full group ready to play... all of
them on my FL.

Randver - goes to Halo 5 game hub and browses groups. Finds a group with the tag line "Over 40 gamers with mics, drink Guinness, playing from 6 to 10pm PST". I join that group, post that I'm looking to play through co-op campaign
and immediately have people that I have something in common with to play with.

Good for you. Unlike you appear to see those who don't really see the appeal for that kind of thing, I don't think you're wrong.

Which of those ways leads to a better gaming experience? I may not like everyone in a group I join because there will always be personality conflicts but the people that don't "fit" with the majority get booted.

Considering how my Halo experience(s) tend to turn out, my games typically end up being with people I've known for awhile and have had plenty of gaming sessions with. No awkward introductory period or getting to know how 'this group
tends to play'. The chances of me not liking any one person in that group is pretty slim... If I didn't like them, they wouldn't be on my friends list.

Where are the cons to that system?

I've said this before and I'll say it again... I've never turned a blind eye to the fact that the system we have does have its cons. The fact that you refuse to see any to your system is just proof that you look at it through rose
colored glasses. A L L systems have their cons. Whether or not you cannot see them is irrelevant. I'm not going to bother even trying to point any out just for you to call them "vague concerns". It's a waste of time.

I have complete control of which groups I join.

I have complete control of who is on my friends list too, and I don't need to keep track of a group for each game.

It significantly streamlines the process of finding people to game with, guarantees I have at least something in common with and the group as a whole determines who participates.

I agree... it can streamline the process of finding people to game with... if you typically need to find people who aren't on your friends list.

My friends list, as a whole, is what it is because they determine if they want to participate in games with me as individuals. If I find someone doesn't fit, I remove an individual. If someone finds I don't fit, they remove me.
I want people to make that decision on an individual basis. The group 'as a whole' invites a 'pack mentality' when it comes to determining if, or how, someone fits. I also have to make that determination about a group, as opposed to 1 person.

How it's even possible for you to lack the ability to see why some people would call this a con is beyond me.

I've been doing exactly this since the beginning of online gaming and it's still done today.

You have a preference. Good for you. Not everyone shares it... nor do they need to.

If it doesn't work or has numerous cons why would we still be doing it?

Ummm... Gee... according to you, this describes the current system and yet here we are.

How is this not better that what the One currently offers and what does the current system do that this one doesn't?

'Better' is possible, but not if the old is scrapped and replaced with this.

:)

 

Reputation being manipulated (pt.2)

Reputation reflects how the Xbox Live community views a player’s behavior over time. The reputation system emphasizes a player’s sportsmanship and overall attitude and is intended to help ensure a level playing field for all Xbox Live members.

The reputation system is designed to be resilient and to prevent abuse from other players. There are a number of protections put in place to ensure that other users are not unfairly affecting your reputation score. Reputation takes into account a wide range
of data points, of which community feedback is only one component. However, in order to ensure the security and integrity of the reputation system and Xbox Live, we cannot divulge specific reputation protections.

Just as spamming unwarranted complaints will not unfairly cause a player’s reputation score to drop, instructing other players to ‘prefer’a player will not improve a low reputation.

Xbox Enforcement | How Do I

 

Petition to fix/remove the flawed reputation system

[Mod Removed] The reputation and false reports are really a giant bloody joke at this point so hopefully, if enough people sign microsoft will be forced
to do something about it.

 

@Blue

Whether or not you cannot see them is irrelevant. I'm not going to bother even trying to point any out just for you to call them "vague concerns". It's a waste of time.

Do I even need to say it? Invisible cons?

I think the biggest reason I see this as useful and you don't is that I do significantly more online gaming than you do. On the PC I belong to racing sim groups, RTS's groups, FPS's groups, MMO's, etc and to use my friends list to do what I do with in in
these groups would be an absolute nightmare. Event calendars, forum posting make organizing so much easier and streamlined.

I think this is why we don't see the communities on the console we see on the PC. I know people playing Destiny use a system like this but they can't do it on the console because it isn't integrated so they are required to do it all the organizing on the
PC. It's why we will never see a racing sim succeed here without something like this in game or on the console.

I stand by what I said in the beginning...I see no benefits in the current system and see no reason that expanding the friends list into something that makes finding and organizing much easier has any downside.

 

I think joining and coordinatin all of those groups would be a complicated nightmare, Randver, which is another reason I don't like the idea. XBL keeps it simple - add them to your friends list if you like playing with them. Then, if you want a specific
game, go that game's hub to see which friends have that game and are online - Those are the ones you invite.

It's easy and not very complicated at all. You don't even have to remember who has which games, which can be useful for those of us that have hundreds of online friends.

The rep system isn't designed to prevent us from playing with douchebags entirely, just make it less likely to happen. As we all know, the system isn't perfect (and no system ever will be as long as human nature is what is being policed).

If you can't play nice, the system punishes you. Therefore, you can't play. At least that's the risk in doing so. It's not always immediate, so a griefer, for example could run rampant for say, a couple of months, before finally being suspended/banned.

A lot of what bogs the system down is false reporting. If you file false reports often, you'll find that the legitimate reports you make will either take longer to process and investigate, or even get ignored entirely. Conversely, if you make legititate,
oft-confirmed reports, whether on a regular basis or not, you'll find that action is taken much sooner. Since I use the system to my advantage, and only when I need to, I get messages from Xbox Live saying thanks all the time.

OMG... I literally just got 1 now, as I type this... LOL!

 

The system works fine. I find all of this debate really weird. Everytime one of these pops up, the OP is usually popped by a moderator, or ambassador in the forums (in this or others) saying why he/she was banned more than ONCE.

And Electro, no this would not happen on Xbox One. The reputation system on Xbox 360 was abused, which is why we have this much better system.

I also get messages all of the time thanking me for helping make Xbox Live a better place.

 

@GG

XBL keeps it simple

That's what I see as the downside.

Many people would never use or need a group style system but I don't see you as being one of those people. I think you would actually be someone that would embrace it and wonder how you ever did without it.

The ability to easily setup and run an entire points season in Forza 5 or Project Cars. Setting up tournaments in the fighting games. Competitive FPS events. Even something like a Scrabble tournament.

For people that enjoy the multiplayer aspect and interaction with other people on the console this allows you to take it to a entirely new level.

 

Do I even need to say it? Invisible cons?

Do I even need to say it? Stubborn refusal to even acknowledge someone else has a point?

Many things are invisible to those wearing blinders.

Just to be clear on this. Do you see how I copy/highlight your posts and address every point you make? Do you see how I've even given you the benefit of making a few good points
along the way?

That's because I believe in what I'm saying and I won't cherry pick your posts to make my viewpoint seem stronger than it is. You should try it some time.

I think the biggest reason I see this as useful and you don't is that I do significantly more online gaming than you do. On the PC I belong to racing sim groups, RTS's groups, FPS's groups, MMO's, etc and to use my
friends list to do what I do with in in these groups would be an absolute nightmare. Event calendars, forum posting make organizing so much easier and streamlined.

Did you see in my post where I did say that I could see it helping to streamline? Did you not see me give you that point? Perhaps there are... no... there definitely are many things
you haven't seen. Invisible indeed, and it applies to more than just a con here and there.

I think this is why we don't see the communities on the console we see on the PC. I know people playing Destiny use a system like this but they can't do it on the console because it isn't integrated so they are required
to do it all the organizing on the PC. It's why we will never see a racing sim succeed here without something like this in game or on the console.

And yet Destiny... succeeds. Go figure?

I stand by what I said in the beginning...I see no benefits in the current system and see no reason that expanding the friends list into something that makes finding and organizing much easier has any downside.

You also must have missed where I said that making what we have now 'better' is possible, as long as we don't completely replace what we have now, with something like this. That
was a nod in your direction... although I'm surprised I even had to say that, since it should've been obvious.

As many invisible things as there seem to be for you, maybe it's time to get the ol' eyes checked?

 

@Blue

I have seen you make reference to my good points but......you continue to throw in the "cons" to the system I proposed and telling me that I don't see them yet don't tell what they are.

I've done this since 1993? (best guess it was the IndyCar racing sim) and have seen it evolve over 20 plus years. So when I say I don't see "cons", I don't.

I agree... it can streamline the process of finding people to game with... if you typically need to find people who aren't on your friends list. Yes, you gave me the point but also threw in that it apparently wouldn't apply to
you. Is that the "con"?

I can't see your gaming history so I don't know if you would have any need for any of this ( how often you play MP, etc) and if you don't so be it. But if you're going to tell me that a group style system will have a negative impact on anyone then at least
tell me why.

The fact that you refuse to see any to your system is just proof that you look at it through rose colored glasses. A L L systems have their cons. I'm all ears. I've explained in great detail how it works and why I don't see any
cons yet you keep throwing that at me. The person who has never done it is telling the person who has done it for 20 plus years there are cons yet won't tell me the cons and accuse me of just not seeing the cons. Confusing? It certainly is for me.

 

Again, just arguing the merits of a system in place. Is it perfect, absolutely not. Still, other than claims from people saying they were unfairly banned or silenced, I don't see evidence. With all the utubers and video peeps, there should be something there.
But nothing...that I've found.

 

The fact that you refuse to see any to your system is just proof that you look at it through rose colored glasses. A L L systems have their cons. I'm all ears. I've explained in great
detail how it works and why I don't see any cons yet you keep throwing that at me. The person who has never done it is telling the person who has done it for 20 plus years there are cons yet won't tell me the cons and accuse me of just not seeing the cons.
Confusing? It certainly is for me.

Simple, I even stated as much in one of, if not, my first posts on this subject. A system that has NO cons, as you say, describes a system that is perfect. This is impossible, there is no such thing as perfection. There is nothing
confusing about that. You simply cannot tell me that everyone who ever uses this system will be able to do so without ever finding a shortcoming. You and I both know better [at least I'd hope]. Yet you expect me to believe the impossible. Confusing?...

Tell you what. I'll give you a real world situation to see how perfect this system is.



One of the first things I would want to do if this system would come to Xbox is;

I want to find a list of individuals to send F/R's to.

I do not want a list of groups or individuals that play a certain game. I tend to play a game for a while, then move on and rarely return to that game afterward... with only a few block buster AAA title exceptions. Hence, finding
groups would become tedious after a while... I should not have to keep searching for a group every time I pick up a new game, only to play with them for a few months +/- and have to do it all over.

The first filter I want applied is by game type. (FPS, MMO... etc.) This is the only gaming related filter I want.

I've found that the most unique and original people I've met and had the best game experiences on XBL with, are those who don't quite fit the mold and I want to find those kinds of people. The gaming filter should have a low priority.
Chances are there will be enough interest in 'common games' for me to warrant them being on my FL.

I need to be able to search for people who don't curse every other word... but cursing is OK if applicable.

However, there are a few people I've met that do curse... a lot. They just do so in a way that is hilarious. It's meant to be funny and it is, for one of them. It's sarcastic wit, derived from life in general and situational aggravation
from another, who could be a professional if that were a profession. I do not want these kinds of people excluded.

These are the kind of people I want to find, but I don't want it limited to just them. I have played games with people on my FL that you may think couldn't possibly get along. I've played with the aforementioned professional of
cursing and a youth pastor in the same lobby and we were all in stitches. Now, to be clear, I'm not talking just 4 letter words... this guy actually wished some pretty harsh 'occurrences' on the other team. (NOT in lobby where they could hear, just among us...
to be funny in a 'situational aggravation' kind of way).

These are the only criteria I can think of, off the top of my head, but this is a good start.

If you can tell me this is possible, then I'm all kinds of interested in this system... but I do want the old 'block/report' system left integrated as a safety net.

If you don't mind, please tell me if and how this would be possible and how to accomplish those goals "in great detail".

 

@Blue

After your last post I think I can find us some common ground and we can agree.

You don't need a group system or even a rep system for that matter. I don't mean this in a disrespectful way but you need a "dating" site.

It appears to me that the relationship/interaction with the people you are gaming with is more important that than the actual gaming experience. Even for you a rep system could filter out someone you may wish to game with, the person who is annoying one
person, you may find entertaining.

The priority for me is the game and my goal is to see all the content and experience the game with the least amount of negative experiences from the people I'm gaming with. In order for that to happen I need to find like minded people that have the same
goals in mind which is exactly what a group system does.

I'm not looking for BFF's on the console. If I want human interaction I'll call up a friend and we'll go grab a beer. That being said......I have run racing sims with some of the same people for close to 20 yrs and I consider them friends. I met people
in the original Borderlands and ended up playing through Halo and GoW with them and I consider them friends. So what you're looking for can happen but it's not the goal of the system.

A group system allows you to find people to game with that you have something in common and the same gaming related goals. In my opinion it does it without any downside. It's allowed me to put 1000's of hours into racing sims and MMO's with people that have
allowed me to experience the game to it's fullest.

 

I do see it differently, Rand.

If I only wanted to enjoy playing a game for the sake of playing it to it's 'fullest potential' I could simply play SP on the hardest difficulty. All it would take is more advancement in AI technology. I know it has a way to go compared to human interaction,
but still...

If I had to use a 'search engine' type filter to find people just so I could get the 'best gaming experience from the game'... well, responding in kind... not to be disrespectful... but that experience would be dull and robotic to me.

I've been married for 22+ years... I'm in no need of a 'dating service'. But when I see "MP" I see it with an emphasis on players. Keeping that in mind, yes, I play games for fun... and the main reason is entertainment. Half of that (more for some, less
for others) is the people playing the game.

Of course I don't expect it to be some kind of match making BFF service. But why would someone like myself want, or find useful, a system that by its very nature tends to limit the ability to find "like minded people"?

Seeing it from my perspective, your system may be more streamlined and make it quicker and easier to find "like minded" people... sort of. As it is now, the current system may require more time and effort, but I find "like minded" people that are worth the
effort. I've never dated any of them, BTW... 'cuz... well... the wife would've killed me. ; )

 

@Blue

But when I see "MP" I see it with an emphasis on players. Keeping that in mind, yes, I play games for fun... and the main reason is entertainment. Half of that (more for some, less for others) is the people playing the game.

I definitely see your point of view but to put mine in a little more perspective......my brother and a guy I've known for 40 plus years are both on my Xbox friends list and playing with either of them is the farthest thing from fun. They both spend more
time on the golf course than the console and they are horrible gamers.

I never finished the first Rainbow Six because of the two of them. They were extremely good at getting killed and shooting everything (including me) except the bad guys. It wasn't fun and it's the same reason they don't invite me to golf....my drives are
impressive but my short game will test even the most patient foursome.

Sometimes the people you would rather play with don't always offer the best gaming experience.

 

Perhaps @Rand... but there is more of a chance you'll run into those kinds of people using your system than the one that's in place now.

Your system searches for people that play game X. Most people don't want to admit how good or bad they are, some think they're better than they actually are. A few may even think they're worse than they really are. It's a gamble.

Mine doesn't require me to send F/R's or even talk to them until I've played a few games in their lobby and determined if they'd make a good edition to my FL or not... and neither side has any pre conceived notions, expectations, or even awareness on the
potential addition's part, that I'm considering adding them or asking them to add me .

I've never added anyone from family, or real life to my FL until after I found out if they can at least play video games or not.