Lost over £2000 in one month used by my 8-year-old

ANDREWDRUMMOND1 · Nov 28, 2018

Thank you Arminator. Of course I have to accept criticism's, some patronising, that I have been less than wise, but in answer to your question if I went into a sweet shop and ordered £2000 worth of sweets the shopkeeper, here at least, would ask, that's
rather a lot, are you holding a big party?

And I would have replied: 'Oh sh*t. I'm not. And that's all the money I have in my bank' Or something like that.

Now obviously they do not have safeguards in to spot these sort of anomalies (My Outlook was not working. It kept repeatedly asking for my pword) but it is reasonable t assume that once they see the rate of purchases and my own particular circumstances
they would know something had gone wrong, rather than assume somebody was pulling a 'fast one' to to speak.

What became apparent in our conversations was that staff at Microsoft have targets over what not to give back. So whatever the customer says is in many ways irrelevant.

These transactions all happened over a few days in a two week period. You will find delicious irony in the fact that when many of these transactions took place I was away in London to speak at a conference on offshore/ internet crime (unpaid) and my children
were being looked after by my brother, (Not his fault I should add).

The particular crimes I was talking about were 'boiler room' share fraud crimes. And you will also argue that many people fall victims to this sort of crime because they are both stupid and greedy.

And just as there is one short step from being a legitimate stock trader to being a dishonest one, so there is from being a tele-sales person for, say, internet broadband salesman, to being an out and out criminal. To them its only a product sale.

If you are arguing 'well, that's the way the world is' then I would have to agree. As in boiler room crime, I have not only got my money back, I have actually given Microsoft more. I see the joke. PS If I were a convicted boiler room fraudster I could
command fees of $millions a year on the conference circuit. (Jordan Belfort).

ANDREWDRUMMOND1 · Nov 28, 2018

Correction: 'I have not only got my money back' should read 'I have not only not got my money back....

Arminator · Nov 28, 2018

[...]

Now obviously they do not have safeguards in to spot these sort of anomalies (My Outlook was not working. It kept repeatedly asking for my pword) but it is reasonable t assume that once they see the rate of purchases and my own particular circumstances
they would know something had gone wrong, rather than assume somebody was pulling a 'fast one' to to speak.

[....]
Click to expand...

I agree, that since I get several parents in a chat that had a similar (but not as costly) experience happen to them, that there should be a spending limit, that can only be circumvented by replying to an email or something like that.

But it's difficult to draw the line, at which point a legitimate buyer gets frustrated to confirm every purchase. For a lot of parents an unauthorized purchase of even "only" 50 Pounds can throw their budget completely off the track, whereas a "wealthy"
grownup might get annoyed, when they have to confirm every time they want to buy that "[NEW GAME NAME] Deluxe Collectors Edition with Everything and a Cherry on Top" for 250 Pounds every week.

Also, Microsoft is just the Marketplace Provider so to say, and you could say that the business model of most (if not all) free to play titles like Fortnite, Paladins, and whatnots are aimed to allow quick spontaneous purchases of material to advance in
the game or to get that special cool looking item you just saw the other player having.

So to prevent buyers remorse before they actually buy those virtual goods, game makers would very much like to NOT have such a safeguard.

We could talk all day long about those morals of free to play titles, but in our capitalistic world, everyone is out to get the money from someone else, no matter how morally questionable the methods.

Starting from the candy shelf in the cashier's area, where you have to wait in line, with a kid screaming and crying because they can't have those sweets from that shelf right next to them, until you give in because all the people around you are already
staring at you and your crying child, up to the boiler room fraud you talk about.

And as I said before: Since you CAN set a safeguard by restricting child accounts in the first place, there is no actual need to set a spending limit, as long as you keep your account to yourself, and secure it against unauthorized access by using Two Step
Verification and other security measures that Microsoft already offers.

You just have to use these security measures.

And I might agree with you: Microsoft does a bad job at advertising these security features. There are too many parents, that still let their kids play on their own adult accounts, or give their accounts to other people because they are being promised "free
level ups" or other objects of desire.

So maybe that experience might also make a good opener for your next talk about financial fraud.

And again: The only advice I can give, in case Microsoft is unable to refund you, is to contact your bank or Credit Card company and report these purchases as unauthorized, and have them cancelled.

brandiesel1 · Nov 6, 2018

I think MS does a great job at advertising those features.

brandiesel1

That game is so dangerous as it's easy to buy things and they always throw that in your face. Luckily it's preventable. Just have a look

here.

ANDREWDRUMMOND1

I have tried and tried but the situation gets worse. The last Microsoft rep suggested that by way of helping it might by an idea to close down my X Box account, which I agreed, because my eight year old has no longer had access to the account and I do
not want him to use any more of what he has bought. By everything is linked to my email an including Microsoft Office so she said that needed to be closed as well. So I lost Microsoft Office and his X box account and my request for refund was then turned down.
Now I have had a request t pay Office again, which of course I have had to do because I used it every day - and of course I no longer have the £2000 worth of games. A double whammy. It is abundantly clear from'chat' conversations that there are rules governing
how much supervisors can refund on an annual basis, which makes the Microsoft work ethic highly questionable.

ANDREWDRUMMOND1

Well I have spent four days now with Microsoft Xbox Support trying to get a refund on the £2000 my eight year old spent in a matter of a few days in November. Endless repeating order numbers and dates on purchases on Roblox, Paladin Crystals, Fortnite,
Overwatch, 3on3 etc. The only refund I got was under £20 from 3on3. In Microsoft Chat they were seemingly very helpful, but undoubtedly they knew they were sending me on path with false hopes. Unfortunately I cannot work, or even go to the pub for that matter,
because I am raising 3 kids, 6,8, and 11. It was startlingly obvious from the pattern of wild orders that this was not authorised behaviour. Despite my pleas, and my own personal record of helping people all my life, Microsoft could do nothing. The last Support
woman who was very sympathetic (she had just lost her husband) said that even as a supervisor the £2000 was near her ANNUAL allowance on refunds. Clearly Microsoft does not have a heart. Or does anybody? I have just returned to the UK after 30 years in the
Orient and I am shocked at the hustlers (Payday Loans, tidy up before you go and pay for your funeral gambling ads on TV - all directed at people with no money. Incidentally Roblox did get back to me today asking for more details, but I am not hopeful. Can
I appeal independently to Paladin Crystal etc I asked, of would Microsoft block it. No answer apart from 'I have tried every way to get you a refund but I am blocked!'. Microsoft heart is purely a promotional gimmick. It does not have one. Is everybody in
the west complacent about this? Ideas? Suggestions? The lady said I should tell the bank they were unauthorised. Don't hold out much help there. Finally - in the process of applying it was suggested I close the particular account. I agreed. Now whatever
my eight year old has bought has done as well.

ArminatorX

Well I have spent four days now with Microsoft Xbox Support trying to get a refund on the £2000 my eight year old spent in a matter of a few days in November. [...] Clearly Microsoft does not have a heart. Or does anybody? [...] Can I appeal independently
to Paladin Crystal etc I asked, of would Microsoft block it. No answer apart from 'I have tried every way to get you a refund but I am blocked!'. Microsoft heart is purely a promotional gimmick. It does not have one. Is everybody in the west complacent about
this? Ideas? Suggestions? The lady said I should tell the bank they were unauthorised. Don't hold out much help there. Finally - in the process of applying it was suggested I close the particular account. I agreed. Now whatever my eight year old has bought
has done as well.

Please, as much as I sympathize with your situation, be aware that Microsoft has tools to prevent this kind of unauthorized spending, however it was up to you to utilize these tools BEFOREHAND, so your kids would have been unable to do these purchases in
the first place.

By allowing your kids on your adult account, it's like letting your credit card lying around unattended. It was basically your responsibility to either give kids a restricted account, or supervise your kids during their play session, so they couldn't have
done these purchases in the first place.

The trouble with digital purchases is:

If a kid goes into a store, and drops candy, toys and whatnot on the cashiers desk
worth 2000 Pound, and tries to pay with a credit card, this will raise the eyebrow of the cashier, and they will demand that their parents come to the desk and confirm that the kid is allowed to spend that much money.

By allowing your kids to play on your own account, it's like an actual grown up person did the purchases, and therefore they were all "legitimately" bought for the system.

That's why you have such a hard time to convince everyone to refund you the stuff.

And why do you allow someone to close your account, when you have your own work related software like Office on that?

To make a "car analogy": Your kid bought a car without your consent, and now by deleting your account, you destroyed the vehicle registration that proved ownership of the car, and now you try to refund the car, without an account or proof of ownership. Good
luck with that! :-(

So in your situation: Don't act too quickly and without thinking.

Have your bank or credit card institution bill back these unauthorized purchases, if Microsoft is unable to refund you that stuff.

Microsoft also has trouble to get the money back, if the kids already spent these bought items.

To get back to the sweets analogy: Let's assume a cartoon-like scenario where your three kids stand on top of each others shoulder and put on a Trenchcoat, and go to the candy store with your credit card.

Since they "appear" as an adult person, they are allowed to buy sweets worth 2000Pounds. Now they return home, eat up all these candy canes, lollypops and bubblegum.

Now try to get back to the store with all the empty wrapper paper and demanding a refund.

So in order to get this resolved: If Microsoft can't refund you the digital purchases, go to your bank and credit card company, and report these transactions as unauthorized. Have them bill the money back, and since your Microsoft account is now closed anyways,
they can then lock it as there would now be unpaid transactions on it, but that wouldn't matter now.

So talk to your bank to get this resolved, and let that be a lesson to keep your account(s) to yourself in the future and to NOT let anyone play on your account ever.

XBF Jeremy Z

Hiya Andrew,

Thank you for contacting forum support!

It is stated within our Microsoft Service
Agreement the following information regarding refunds:

Refund Policy. Unless otherwise provided by law or by a particular Service offer, all purchases are final and non-refundable. If you believe that Microsoft has charged you in error, you must contact
us within 90 days of such charge. No refunds will be given for any charges more than 90 days old. We reserve the right to issue refunds or credits at our sole discretion. If we issue a refund or credit, we are under no obligation to issue the same or similar
refund in the future. This refund policy does not affect any statutory rights that may apply. For more refund information, please visit our help
topic.

Our only current suggestion entails the use of the refund
request webform as this is our way of having our team review the purchase, the reason in asking for the refund, and then of course the decision given.

The form can be completed multiple times, so we suggest trying it again in your attempt to get a refund.

Hope this helps.

Lost over £2000 in one month used by my 8-year-old