getting tired of locked "open world" maps

I'm explaining it badly if people think that I think bootstrap wants to reach the last boss early. To be fair I'm listening to a podcast, playing State of Decay, and posting here. So if my Death Star analogy and stuff fails that's probs my bad.

It's not about tackling the last boss, or actually experiencing any plot-related final stages. It's about undermining plot elements by giving a stupid amount of freedom to the protagonist. Enough to walk right into the antagonist's backyard, past his guard
dog, kicking his old mom on the way, and peeing on his doorstep a little!

I haven't played FarCry 4, but I'm assuming the locked part of the island belongs to a character with some agency in the story. He is Vader and that part of the island is the Death Star maybe? If you get to waltz through this guy's territory you undermine
his threat as an antagonist, and the area he controls isn't under his control.

You could also undermine any character development on your own character's part... in that the journey to tackling whatever is in the last part of the island, the locked part... is rendered pointless. Because the skills he needed, and the personal demons
he fought, all of that -- to get there... are all pointless if he can wander around for no story-related reason [collectibles/side objectives] from the very start.

General So-and-So: "All right guys it's the final push to destroy the most devastating weapon in the galaxy... this is going to be next to impossible!"

Skywalker: -raises hand- "Wait, what? I was there earlier when I got my first ship, before I learned I was a Jedi, before I built any character through adversity, and before I had any reason to go there, really... lulz. I just docked with the Death Star
and had a look around. S'all good. Easy."

General So-and-So; "Oh. Right. Well I hope all the viewers watching this can still suspend their disbelief from here on in, because we've really been selling this Death Star thing as the big finale, monster threat."

[=D

 

Nah, it's literally half the map of the whole world... For example I have done 7/13 bell towers and 13/24 outposts, all in the south and each outpost unlocks more side quests and bell towers lift the fog of the map so you can see landmarks.

So far I have done 20/32 story missions and I have yet to unlock the north, I already have one side of the skill trees fully unlocked and 3/4 of other side, all standard weapons unlocked, homestead upgrades done, wallet at 2 million and this has been for
a while bar a few weapons. I'm already a rolling tank.

It's also discouraged me playing coop as I don't want to be a burden on anyone as you can't unlock the last health upgrade and until.... You've guessed it, you get the key to the north, haha.

 

So the whole world belongs to the bad guys and you're taking it a piece at a time? Isn't there a civil war raging or something? I don't know enough to comment on FarCry 4, obviously. lol... but if there are no story-related reasons to confine the character
then I can see how it could be jarring and frustrating being blocked in places.

I'm just working under the assumption that the story has given enough reason to confine the character, and so the world is reflecting that in barriers and whatnot. Heh ha.

But the skipping ahead thing... the... going anywhere to do anything thing...

... it'd be like being given Frodo to control in a open-world game and beefing up his stats long before he even reaches The Prancing Pony. Ha ha. Just because he's powerful enough to dive head-first into the fires of Mount Doom doesn't mean the player should
be allowed to skip the whole Fellowship thing and head straight for Mordor just to pick up an upgrade or collectible... lol...

... only to return later with the Fellowship, and his upgrades, as part of the story, and after the "long" "arduous" journey that wasn't. [XD

 

Pretty much the whole world is being oppressed by a dictator of sorts and the rebels have a stronger hold in the south, which is where you start. The only story related thing holding you back is they strongly control the north so you have to get a better
hold in the south. That's the easiest way to describe it, though the thing is, I own the south now, no doubt I'm about to move to the north, but I would have liked it to happen a little earlier.

It hasn't really detracted from the experience for me though, but it's just forcing me to chop and change between things. I like to get all my upgrades and weapons sorted and just concentrate on the story, now I'll have to stop the story 3/4 through to clean
up the stuff I'm missing. Other games have implemented cut off areas or invisible walls much better, imo.

RPG's are much different though as skipping ahead to areas would be silly as you'd get level 20 gear when you're a level 1 for example and I'd agree games aren't meant to be that way. I don't think I would have gotten that kind of advantage from clearing
a few more outposts and bell towers. I'm not going to change my weapons now and I've had them for the past 15 hours or so.

 

That makes some kind of sense. Don't want enemy controlled areas behind you as you're going forward, and I imagine it plays into some allied/rebel storyline involving some leader or other who wants the South under control and to coordinate his own forces'
offensive into the North, while you, Johnny Q Hero do your own thing and random tasks asked of you by the friendlies.

I dunno I'm guessing here.

Just like, off the top of my head, Red Dead Redemption, Dragon Age: Origins, Mass Effect 3... lol The old coordinated offensive while the hero does whatever... which translates to; 'seriously we can't handle too much at once so let's focus on the one character
and give you glimpses of the bigger picture at convenient intervals.

Heh ha. Huge congrats on having 170 completions on your card btw Digi. I for some reason didn't read that in your post on the Regs thread the first time, so I'll say the congrats here, and avoid a double post there!

Congrats! {=D

 

I think open world should not block you from exploring or forcing you to explore every inch of the game. In the old grand theft autos, I remember when you past a certain area, cops would be chasing you. However grand theft auto started to slowly move away
from forcing players to do certain stuff. I just wish you had more free will. Like why can't we make our own character and have him/her as the way we want? I connect with games and I like games better when I can connect with the character. Picture having your
own character and make them move up the business ladder or fight in the army or be a boss in a group. Seems like the more the open games expand, we are still limited on what we can do with the characters. Before in San Andreas you could do way more than GTA
5, some of you may agree or disagree

 

^^ Hmm. GTA: San Andreas had far fewer activities and freedom than GTAIV dude, which means it's not even close to GTAV. Have you played GTA Online? Kriste on a Bike... there's loads to do, and plenty of freedom. Heh.

I always imagined The Sims franchises going to a place you sort of described in your post. The player could build a city in SimCity, create jobs and services, and parks and recreation, and then zoom down, and in, and create a Sim and go live in it all.

For good open-world, and great character creation give Saints Row IV: Re-Elected a go when it launches on Xbox One later this month. There are several voices to choose from, for each gender, even a zombie a voice... a kuh-jillion outfits and
costumes, and extensive tools to play around in sculpting your character.

Just go with the Row. =]

 

i could never really get into the sims, not the newer games where they've got npcs and quests and stories to do...i just want to build a nice house, create a lovely little family, and murder them all in horrible and humorous ways.

you bring up saints row 4 as a good open world, but its a prime example of what i'm talking about without the story problems you brought up. it's an open world from the get go (other than the prologue/tutorial levels) with pretty much every side activity
ready and waiting, without you coming across story spoilers or whatever, since you have activate the story missions on your phone/tablet/whatever.

i might be misremembering how the activities really worked, but i think they were all unlocked without you having to rescue the homie associated with that type of activity. certainly you could do them before they asked you to as part of their loyalty missions...

character customization in saints row is pretty great. when i was going for the kill with ground pound power trophy i made my boss up to look like the hulk.

 

It depends on the game I think man. FarCry is going for realism, and open-world gameplay, while delivering a compelling story. I just can't see how you can set up warring factions in a story, on an island, with territory control gameplay elements, and total...
unbridled freedom to roam. Something would have to give.

But as you and Digi have said... maybe they could have handled the "invisible wall", barrier-thing better in FarCry 4. Maybe if they gave a bit of extra length on the leash more gradually and organically as the player progressed or something?

But Saints Row...

... there are so many layers to Saints Row since The Third, that the devs can do pretty much anything and it won't affect the story. IV is set in a sci-fi movie starring the Saints, with sets ranging from the White House to a spaceship after the Earth is
destroyed, and the majority of the game takes part in a simulation on a spaceship within the movie. lol

All of the events on the ship and the simulation can be written off as a movie, and the Saints can go back to their penthouses knowing that Gangsta's in Space and whatnot were awesome films.

Saints Row V can be set in time-travelling madness if it continues the movie thread from IV, or it can go right back to Saints Row 2 and GTA gameplay if the devs decide to plant the Saints' feet on the ground again, and discard the movie theme.

I suppose it depends on how Gat out of Hell ends. It could end with a rival gang busting in and tearing up the spaceship and Hell movie sets, and the Saints could be fighting this gang in a movie studio in Stilwater or something.

Games like FarCry have more at stake story-wise because they strive for realism. Games like Saints Row can use the "Heeeey it's a video game!" excuse for every gaping plot hole. "Why doesn't Zin just manipulate the simulation to block the Saints Boss at
every turn? He only seems to do it when it suits the story."

"Heeeey it's a B-Movie with a sci-fi simulation plot starring popular gangbangers -- in a video game!"

S'a decent license to give a player total freedom. {XD

 

i don't know..farcrys realism is on the same level as gta and maybe saints row 1, in that it's satirical realism and you won't be fighting godzilla donkey monsters during the story...but they have drugs so they can have fun with reality whenever they want.
i mean, they give you a little helicopter super early in the game, in the very first outpost you take over, and a wingsuit so it's not like they don't want you to go exploring.

plus judging from the list of future farcry suggestions, ubisoft is not super interested in realism.

 

I'm debating blind on the FarCry front. Heh ha.

If I had my way the only way a player would be kept out of an area is with powerful enemies obliterating them. The player would get utterly rogered for going where they shouldn't. But you can't really do that any more in AAA games because publishers think
the up-and-coming gamers are the medals-for-taking-part-generation... they don't like dying, learning, or retrying. lol

They prefer getting checkpoints/autosaves with every footfall, regenerating health instead of pickups, crazy loot instead of challenging scarcity, assisted-aim instead of marginal skill, and "story mode" options in games like Mass Effect 3.

So instead of killing them, says big money, stick a barrier up and keep them out of an area they shouldn't be. Give them a hint and gameplay reminder every few minutes, have characters repeat objectives in redundant exposition, and solve puzzles for players
taking too long. Ha ha.

This... the generation that lapped up the likes of the torturous Flappy Bird. Publishers are out of touch. Ha ha!

I dunno man. I can see where you're coming from but if every important area had to be behind a loading screen/transition into another area... it would defeat the one-map, one-island, thing, surely.

Maybe the FarCry devs want to keep you in the world and never have you looking at a transition screen [Saints Row IV has tons of loading screens, I don't know about FarCry 4 lol] ... or moving between maps, and the cost of that immersion is fog of war, and
virtual lameness pushing you out of areas you shouldn't be until you've done the tasks you've been assigned in the story.

*shrug*

 

"If I had my way the only way a player would be kept out of an area is with powerful enemies obliterating them." i'm getting sorta ptsd from dragon age inquisition now.

i was trying to get to redcliff to meet with the mages last night. i fast traveled to one of my closer camps, started walking towards the compass direction...and got absolutely pounded by a high dragon. i'm only level 8 at this point so i'm pretty amazed
that none of my group actually died, everyone healed up in between fireballs. i have no idea what level that dragon *** was, but i'm not going back there until i'm max level with all the best equipment...

 

So I finished FC4 and the north does have harder enemies, not that much harder and harder outposts, but guess what? I did them with the same equipment and upgrades I had in the south, really no point to barring me from that area for so long! Oh well, it
didn't ruin the game for me, the story did a good enough job of that by itself, hahaha, I kid, it wasn't as bad as I make it sound.

 

bootstrap, there's deffo hope for us all yet in terms of the retardation of challenging AAA's lol

Games like DA:I reaping rewards is a good thing. EA's declared hands off approach to developers is a good sign. Square Enix admitting they've lost sight of what made their games popular way back when is a good sign. Capcom hitting the old drawing board is
a good sign. 2K have been pretty good from the off. Ubisoft and Activision need to catch up. Bethesda has a good record.

For FC4 the devs could maybe have set up the North as having some highly trained psychos, with some freaky tracking equipment, and any time the player wandered North they'd get sniped/insta-killed within say, four minutes. With no chance of avoiding it.

Then when the story says they can go forward it could be with a plot device/piece of equipment that renders the tracking equipment of the psychos inutile. A logical way to keep a player where you want him.

There must be a billion better ways to do it than barriers and walls. Ha. Between us three we could probably conjure hundreds. [XD

 

If I was to ever make a game, it would never have elements from other games that annoyed me.

It's like Dark Souls for example, they attempted to block areas off from you with harder enemies and actually succeeded in one area as you needed a special kind of weapon to pass. That just seems so natural to me, like you don't even think that you're getting
barred from that area.

Other times you can be slogging it out for hours in a dungeon, only to realise, you're like two stages in front of where you should be, hahaha. That's how you block areas and people with enough skill can even get through some of them earlier then intended,
obviously with a lot more pain involved, but that's their choice and I just love having that choice. I'm a bit of a masochist gamer though, so tend to go for the painful route, haha.