A question about dx12

@ Randver, All you need to do is use the routine, DX12 is short cuts for the programmer. Instead of writing the whole routine to do a task, it is already in memory. You just need to set it up and excute the routine.

 

as promised (been really busy @ work today)

AMD's Raja Khodury: "And it's not a small benefit. It's… like getting four generations of hardware ahead with this API."

Intel's VP of Engineering, Eric Mentezer: "This is absolutely, I think, the most significant jump in technology in a long, long time."

Nvidia's VP of Content and Technology, Tony Tamasi: "existing cards will see orders of magnitude improvements from DirectX 12's release, going from hundreds of thousands to millions and maybe tens of millions of system draws in a second."

www.gamepur.com/.../14235-developers-directx12-benefits-xbox-one-2x-faster-gpu-performance-most-signi.html

Your turn Cujo state your "various developers" please no Sony developers (like ICE), some independent third party ones would be nice.

 

Well, now. Seems like someone's bringing the rain.

 

Fatal,

this write up from reddit answered tons of questions I had myself...

Extremely heavy tech article overall very positive for X1 - to immediately be followed up with downplay and fanboy nonsense unchanged from the last six months. Great :\

In case anyone can actually admit they aren't a programmer, but still wants to know what this is all about, I'll do my best to explain, briefly.... (I'm a low level hardware programmer, I don't program for DirectX, all below is just my actually-educated
take on it)

DX12 is introducing a new way to program for GPUs. As code has become more complex the old way of programming is becoming less efficient. MS is estimating that in most games, frame to frame, about 90% of the code is the same. This makes perfect sense, engines
do this naturally of course, even between same-engine games the majority of the rendering will look familiar. The Last Of Us code knows how to make a Last of Us frame, and that doesn't change for the most part. DX12 is introducing "bundles" that highly optimize
this process.

Bundling code wouldn't do much on it's own though, besides making the code look easier to read and change for the dev (so like OpenGL's version of bundles, there is a benefit in usability). So the cool part is that MS/DX12 has devised a way to use the CPU
to auto-optimize the time, the order, the priority, where the results are stored, and how to que up the next instruction. This is CPU heavy. It's using the CPU to allow the GPU to run at a higher efficiency.

Ok, but the CPU is a finite resource too! You can't just fall back on the CPU to help keep the GPU fed and churning along, it's not like the CPU is just sitting idle. So... Another aspect of DX12 is that it's designed to not only reduce the overhead on the
CPU (see Mantle), but it's being implemented as way to improve the parallelism of all the cores (see the DX12 launch slides where one CPU core is always loaded far higher than the rest, much more equally loaded after DX12). By reducing the dependance on the
core assigned to the "main game loop" which runs at 1.75/1.6Ghz X1/PS4 respectively, they are breaking the load down across all available game cores. This increased ability to push parallel tasks means a huge increase in effective CPU throughput. This is why
we even have multiple CPU cores of course. DX12 allows for benefit from them.

So now DX12 is helping load the GPU at the cost of CPU while taking that new CPU load and spreading out across cores (see article and slides above). But... DX12 is also adding new rendering techniques like the previous versions of DirectX. So, the new effects
that came with DX9, 10, 11... There are new versions for 12 as well. These have not yet been detailed. What remains to be seen is if they are just updated versions of 11.2/existing hardware functions (hardware tiling, etc) or if MS included the new DX12 hardware
in the X1 SoC. They were developing the two concurrently for the past 5 years... So it's very likely to me they would have included them together. No guarantee.

DX12 is also doing something cool with ram management. By loading the CPU heavy with GPU efficiency tasks, the CPU is now keeping track of the CPU and the GPU's memory requirements. So it's the ideal time to schedule/execute tasks and move memory around.
Something that often gets REALLY misconstrued is the "ONLY" 32mb of ESRAM the X1 has. DX12 is being shown to have the ability to dynamically move data on a predictive nature based on... bundles. What they are saying is that the system and dev will be able
to make sure the right memory is where it needs to be when it needs to be. For this, the X1 would utilize the "Move Engines" / DMA controllers so that the CPU and GPU both while busy doing tasks, the DMA is loading and unloading from system ram and ESRAM all
the time. It doesn't matter that you have a 32mb plate and want to eat an elephant, you do it the same way everytime - you eat it one bite (byte, heh) at a time.

In reply to the author's notes and like minded to another poster here... Remember all that CPU loading DX12 is now doing? Remember that the X1 has a slightly faster processor than other consoles? What else helps with CPU utilization? Cloud offloading (see
Titanfall's AI). If you have a system that you know is going to load the CPU very heavily in order to massively improve efficiency on the GPU... You try and off load things like map generation, AI, NPCs, physics, and whatever else you can to the network/cloud.
Besides pulling load from the CPU, could compute could be a huge benefit for realism later on (see latest Cloud Compute building destruction physics example), and right now it's just awesome for reduced lag. This is an interesting advantage for MS as they
are the only console player currently with access to a network that can make this possible.

.

So... That should be about it. There is a WHOLE LOT of wait and see here. But what is for sure, is that this is a MAJOR shift in technology here (at the DX12 reveal AMD saying "it's like getting four generations are hardware ahead today"). So while it MAY
or MAY NOT "double performance" on X1. I think it's clear it's going to be a big deal. With next wave games like Wolfenstien and Sniper3 already 1080p on X1 just with more time over launch games, or better MS tools, or removed kinect/app/OS reservation (we
really don't know the answer to which) it seems to me, that DX12 will firmly cement 1080p for future X1 games (see Phil Spencer's comments implying we're in the 360-Perfect Dark Zero phase right now and not the 360-Halo4 stage). Now... Before the fanboys jump
in with some propaganda that doesn't work on anyone but the extreme base, does it really hurt you if X1 games are 1080p? No, it helps you. I fully expect PS4 games to remain 1080p as well. It's not a competition. If you'd like, you can comfort yourselves with
obscure hardware specifications I guess.

TL;DR: it doesn't matter what DX12 is doing if you aren't a game programmer. Short story is MS does seem to have a plan, while I'll admit it's clear both consoles were launched early, it does seem that MS has a plan in place for their hardware decisions
they've made. But... If you see a fanboy immediately coming here to downplay DX12... Well, that just confirms it's a pretty big deal.

 

f00xm4n there you go.

Game developer says it’s ‘physically impossible’ for Xbox One to match PS4 performance

 

nearly.....both ps4 developers tho, that might bring a game they are developing to xbox via the indie developers program. Still would believe Intel, AMD and nvidia professionals over a ps4 developer that spoke to another ps4 developer.

 

TBH Bst, what I get from that is a known fact.. nothing DX12 does for the XB1 will ever raise the speed of the memory or raise the "specs" but what it does is make those specs that it does have work easier and more efficient... the XB1 is what it is...DX12
just streamlines it MUCH better than it currently runs...

 

There not a playstation developer they are bringing there game to the X1. And this was from the CEO clearing it up not just some nobody.

 

so lanning said pre dx12 announcement....

This was the statement “So I would say, months ago, there was a wider gap,” said Lanning. “Part of it was the development systems,” he explained, before going on to say that it was common to hear devs complaining that getting assets onto Xbox One took “twice
as long” as PS4.Just a few months on, however, and Lanning believes that the process is getting easier.“We’re hearing and seeing that that curve is getting closer,” he said. “I think at the end of the day when people maximize both systems, they’re each powerful
enough[…] They’re in that class of when you watch the basketball, you’re going to be like, ‘Is that TV? Or is that a game?’”According to Lanning this is in part due to Xbox One developer tool improvements.“I think they’ve been improving the toolset really
fast, improving the development environment and shaving that curve down… I think they’re getting comparable.”

 

Lanning is working on a new “from-the-ground-up” remake of Oddworld for PlayStation 4

Yeah sounds like a third party developer to me.

Link, see bstn link

 

Yowza! That's some read! I'll pick that up when I get home.

 

F00xm4n spin all you want they are not working for Sony and there game is comming to X1. What my link really shows is how most of these quotes from people are not accurate and taking out of context. People on the X1 side where using his quote before to show
how the gap between the consoles was getting smaller but now it's cleared up and that's not what he said.